Athrun and meyrin relationship marketing

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athrun and meyrin relationship marketing

Flickr photos, groups, and tags related to the "cagalli" Flickr tag. large 8 inch doll of Athrun Zala from Gundam SEED / Destiny! . Its shield was later found and sold at the black market auction for junk where Lowe Guele picked . [2] Their sibling relationship appears normal, though Meyrin may have an inferiority complex. It was their strategy and public relations that sucked. .. From their first appearance in Destiny, Athrun and Cagalli aren't communicating and Their only concern is sparking wars and conflict so that they have a market for their arms dealing. WOW, i never imagined that athrun choosed meyrin, i watched the complete series, but i thought that athrun continues his relationship with.

He had a fake Lacus doing his biddings. Sudden return of real Lacus would have been a real disadvantage. Okay, there IS no real proof, but there never was any indication of any other group staging the incident. On the nuke topic ZAFT isn't that evil. Mass destruction is avoided after the incidents of SEED. There are a number of such mysteries in Gundam Seed Destiny which are never totally explained.

But personally, I thought it was pretty obvious that Durandal sent the team to take out Lacus. He had a fake Lacus raring to go and definitely wants her dead later. If anything, I'd say that it's more likely that Durandal had the terrorist dropping of Junius 7 set up as part of his plan rather than saying that he wasn't actually the one to send soldiers after Lacus in spite of how obvious it seemed that he was. Durandal talked nice, but he sure didn't act it when it came to enacting his plans. Durandal is the only suspect who makes sense.

Terrorists, whether Blue Cosmos or followers of Patrick Zala, thrive on publicity; but these assassins are trying to do it secretly. Unless they had someone who knew Durandal's secrets, they also be targeting Meer, thinking she was Lacus. The assassins are Coordinators, which also eliminates Blue Cosmos. It also eliminates the Seirans as suspects - why would Coordinators try to kill Lacus so that Orb can ally with the Coordinator-hating Atlantic Federation?

The Special Edition Which supposedly tried to clarify things show Durandal making plans for Shinn to throw down with Kira almost immediately after Kira defeats the assassin squad the fight is at the end of part 1 and Durandal thinking to himself is one of the first scenes in part 2 long before Kira actually starts messing with Zaft. Why would he be planning for this with no cause before hand? For that matter he shouldn't even know Kira had Freedom back unless he sent or was at least somewhat involved with that squad.

It had to be Durandal. Durandal didn't nuke Orb, because he isn't a complete monster that would just blow stuff up, killing innocents, to kill somebody he wants dead. His plans were to create a world for everyone to co-exist in peace, even if it did mean some communism and monarchy was involved. His plan wasn't to nuke the places that opposed him until nobody stood in his way, like Patrick Zala would do.

Yeah he didn't want all natural's dead, but once he got Requiem, anyone who wouldn't accept the Destiny Plan promptly had Requiem fired at them. He did it to EA's moon base, and he would have done it to Orb at the end. And while this might sound OOC for Durandal, keep in mind Orb is a relatively small country and Durandal clearly has no problem killing at least some innocents so long as the majority lives.

He decided to blow up a fair amount of his own ships with Neo Genesis while they were in combat with the Orb fleet after all. He didn't do this at the beginning of Destiny of course because he at first seemingly wanted Orb on his side.

He tried similar speeches that got Athrun and Shinn hanging on his every word on Cagalli while she was on the Minerva and even tried to bring her back to Plant with him for "her own safety" where she would have gotten a front row seat for EA's nuke attack and Durandal could publicise that EA almost killed Orb's princess when she was a guest of Plant, which would have turned Orb anti EA and pro Zaft but she opted to stay.

And while Djbril was there Zaft would have taken Orb as a conquered territory if they successfully invaded. It was only after it was clear that Orb and Cagalli would not follow him no matter what that he decided to get rid of the whole country. Which reminds me, how could everyone fall for that Meer Campbell fraud? She couldn't imitate Lacus well if her life was riding on that! Because a pop star getting a boob job and changing her image is something that happens all the time in real life without the pop star being replaced by another person.

I don't think it would be that strange if she naturally "grow up" around that age. Because of this The real question is how a pop star like Lacus could have so much political clout and reputation in the first place. Because her dad was as important as he was.

Anime Analysis & Review: 'Mobile Suit Gundam SEED'/'SEED Destiny' | ReelRundown

Plus, after the events of the previous series and the role she played there, Lacus could be a truck driver and people would still listen. I recall Those Two Guys on the Minerva actually talking about how different "Lacus" was early on, but they came to the conclusion that they liked her better that way and didn't put any further thought into it.

Whether this goes for the rest of humanity, we can only guess. Meyrin also comments to Athrun about how different "Lacus' is. As far a bust size difference is concerned I heard that the explanation to the public was her genes were coordinated to have her 'blossom' at that age. She just doesn't dress in a way to emphasize those parts. Meer herself wouldn't look too much different from Lacus if she wore Lacus's kimono and white coat.

Long story short, she's got the figure to match her mind. Exactly, how was the Destiny Plan supposed to bring everlasting peace? By ushering in the Brave New World. It's in the manga. The idea was to control everyone, putting them in a place suitable for their natrual genetics and abilities, forcing them to stay there whether they liked it or not, and thus creating a world where everyone can, and must co-exist.

Durandal seems to be under the impression that conflict stems from dissatisfaction in life. He seemed to honestly think that if people were put in their "proper place" through genetic determinism, they would feel happy and fulfilled and thus would have no desire to spark conflicts. Naturally, there would be a transitional period during which the people of the world got used to the idea, but once that was over, war would be a thing of the past.

Of course, he's wrong about that. In fact, I recall one of the Astray mangas showing a Coordinator who had come from a Martian colony which actually did implement a system similar to the Destiny Plan independently of Durandal Why couldn't it be something more sensible, like "being the son of a genocidal madman who would have torched their homeland from orbit".

Or they just grew apart because they have different lives and obligations? You mean like what actually happened in the series. The breakup has absolutely nothing to do with an "unequal pairing". They were both very recently on the rebound in Seed and as Destiny and real life show, rebound relationships often don't work out.

From their first appearance in Destiny, Athrun and Cagalli aren't communicating and are making decisions as individuals, not a couple. Athrun is obviously dissatisfied with his role in Orb, which lots of people, including even Shinn, notice and comment on, while Cagalli says and does nothing about it.

Cagalli repeatedly chooses Orb over Athrun even before she breaks the engagement and joins the Earth Alliance. Athrun chooses to somewhere that people listen to him and give him the chance to protect people from genocidal maniacs.

Not sure what series you were watching, but that isn't what happened at all. The relationship itself came to an end because Cagalli attempted to go through with her arranged marriage to Yuna while Athrun was visiting the Plants, which he'd only done in order to find out more about what their plans were going forward after the Junius 7 incident. It had nothing to do with Athrun being dissatisfied by his life in Orb and with Cagalli specifically.

Furthermore, he specifically tells Cagalli about understanding why she went through with the marriage, but that he can't forgive her for it, when they meet up against after he's rejoined Zaft and Cagalli has left Orb with the Archangel. After all, Cagalli disappoints Athrun by agreeing to marry Yuna behind his back.

Athrun disappoints Cagalli by giving her cold treatment when he got back to Archangel with Meyrin on his side no less. Maybe the flame simply died. It was a marriage arranged by her father long before she ever met Athrun, let alone fell in love with him, and considering what happened to her dad and the fact without Yuna and his dad she stands alone in the Orb government she probably felt she HAD to do it. Or did that ring mean jack all? Apparently it did to Fukuda, considering Cagalli just suddenly stopped wearing it when Athrun and Meyrin join the group, which is what ticked Athrun off in the first place.

Actually, Athrun was shocked that Cagalli had dumped him to marry Yuna. At their next meeting, Athrun was angry with Cagalli and said there were somethings even he couldn't forgive. Cagalli finally stopped wearing the ring when she finally admitted to herself that she had broken the engagement long before then.

Since I found it a bit odd that Stellar went from panicking and screaming that she didn't know Shinn to docile, vulnerable, and recognizing him within the course of about two or three scenes without any real sort of trigger. Or do we just chalk it up to good ol' Power of Love and leave it at that?

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It seems so, since they require regular 'maintenance' inside those glowing capsules that constantly 'smooth them over' to ensure control and keep them alive. This is some pretty heavy mental tinkering, after all, which seems to still be in experimental stages, so it might not yet be perfect. So Durandal reveals his Destiny Plan, essentially saying that he'll now dictate everyone's lives via their genetics.

Why was there was not a single note of complaint from anyone watching their democratically elected leader make himself a dictator? In Gundam SEED they at least showed that the radical fringe was in power and people were having doubts even as they followed orders. But in this the Coordinator reaction was either complete silence or loyal obedience, even though the plan was a total surprise to everyone.

Durandal is a charismatic man, but that's just breaking the suspension of disbelief in half. And not everyone did buy into it. Plus Durandal had been systematically trying to eliminate any coordinators he thought might oppose the Destiny Plan long before he announced it - look at Operation Angel Down, the attempted killing of Athrun and Meyrin, and the several attempts at assassinating Lacus.

As for Earth's nations, only Orb and Scandanavia rejected the Plan. Most of the governments were destroyed during the war and Logos chase, so they have to rely on Durandal for support. Along with the two countries mentioned above, the Atlantic Federation also was against it. It took Requiem killing their leaders to convince them otherwise Why did Rey do such a ideological in the final episode? He has loyally served Durandal all his life, obviously cared about him very much he flung himself into Durandal's arms in an early episodeand is so haunted by his inevitable fate he passionately supports the Destiny Plan.

And yet a few choice words from Kira move him so much he shoots his own father figure? Even though the Word of God says Kira 'strayed from the path of justice' and is therefore wrong? So Rey, essentially, defies all of his previous loyalties and motivations to follow someone canon sees as misguided and villainous? How the heck does that make any sense? Maybe Lacus taught Kira those formidable mindrape skills that made a pop star the most influential person in ZAFT's politics It looked to this troper that Kira's words managed to snap Rey out of his Cloning Blues and convinced him that he wasn't bound by fate since was his own person who could decide his own destiny, which runs contrary to Durandal's Destiny Plan, which would rob people of that.

Still, it was very poorly executed on the series' part, and didn't quite warrant a bullet. I think that a lot of Rey's turn around has to do with his regarding himself as the new, improved Le Creuset. He wants to live a better version of Rau's life, and part of that at least from his perspective seems to entail defeating Kira, who killed his older brother figure.

They fight, and what ends up happening? He gets his rear-end kicked, but Kira, who he regards as an abomination, doesn't finish the job. Instead he tells him that his need to live down what Rau tried to do isn't necessary, and that he can be his own person, then leaves.

Rey's just had two of the central tennents of his life—that the Ultimate Coordinator is inherently bad, and that he has to make up for Rau's mistakes—questioned for quite possibly the first time.

By the time he reaches the Durandal's room, he's probably questioned his own motivations more than a few times. And when he gets there, what does he overhear? Kira giving more or less the same speech to Durandal, proving that it wasn't just BS to mess with Rey's head. We'll never know what went through Rey's head after that, but for the first time someone's given him some hope. And then Durandal tries to shoot that person. Rey's military training kicks in, and he reacts instinctively, blowing Durandal away.

Judging from his freakout afterwards, he almost instantly regrets it.

Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny / Headscratchers - TV Tropes

Does that make sense to anyone else? It does make a lot of sense. The problem is that this all happened over the course of one episode. If this had happened over a series of multiple episodes, showing that doubt was slowly gnawing at Rei until he finally snapped, it could have been brilliant.

Instead we get an epic Motivation Whiplash. To be fair as a clone he is likely much younger than he appears and since he appears as a teenager its likely he is very young and open to manipulation as he doesn't have the proper mental maturity to think critically or for himself. He would be easily swayed by acceptance, I mean he clings to Talia as he dies and finally acts his age.

He is enacting a less cynical version of Rau Le Creuset's plan and even pilots an upgraded version of his final suit. He is basically emulating his big brother and once Kira accepts the orphan who do you think has been taking care of him?

Word of God maintains that Kira and friends were indeed the villains - leaving aside the ethical issues of Durandal's plan and the Internet Backdraftthe series ends with Kira winning and being, at least in-series, endorsed as right all along. So does that make Destiny an epic Downer Endingor? The term "villain" is heavily subjective.

Could be that the interview is carrying the same view going in. I recall an interview around the time the series started saying that this was a series in which 'the good guys would lose.

I wouldn't really call it a Downer Endingsince Final Plus shows that the world was unified, peace was finally achieved, and Kira and Shinn promised to work together in maintaining it. It's just that Kira and his group came across as villainous since they dealt with the problems in the most dickish way possible.

I wouldn't say they were outright villains, just heavily misguided by their emotions and stubborn. Can someone explain to this troper how Kira and group acted like villains? Beyond that point, post Stella, it was quite clear that Durandal was more or less thinking how he was going to take over the world. It requires giving Durandal a ridiculous benefit of the doubt and Kira and co none at all. And zero sympathy for anyone on Orb's side, they'd rather the whole fleet was wiped out if Heine could survive and Orb should have been conqured to keep Djbril from getting to Requiem.

Basically the idea the Kira is evil people have is Durandal didn't send the assassins, Kira and co just assumed he did and waged war on him and interfered with Durandal's legitimate attempt to bring peace the world, and also that the Destiny Plan was voluntary and if any country refused he'd leave them be, with Orb only being singled out because they attacked him first.

Some of this gets frankly ridiculous Durandal blantantly says to target Orb at the end but his supporters insist he must mean to target the government buildings only and leave the civilians unharmed.

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Word of God does not say that Kira and company were the villains of the piece. That's merely some Durandal fans interpretation of a rough translation of an interview from "Animaze" magazine. Considering they can't even get the magazine name right, I'm rather doubtful of the accuracy of the claims. As for Kira and co being dickish about their methods: The Destiny plan was evil.

They couldn't talk Shinn, Rey and Durandal down, so they beat them down. Same method used by every Gundam protagonist since Amuro. That interview also seems rather poorly translated and while a single line does mention Kira and Lacus may have strayed from justice, it's otherwise Anti Durandal mentioning the Destiny Plan would never be fully accepted without lots of bloodshed because people given lousy jobs WOULD rebel against it, and that Durandal was a sociopath with no belief in people and he'd been planned for Destiny Plan since before Seed ended implying much of the Destiny war WAS simply plotted out to let him bring out his plan and implied Shinn was a tragic character that made poor decisions, that he was delusional that he had gotten strength to protect the world and he was the one that needed to be protected, and that while Shinn meant well he was a "lost" warrior who never met the person to guide him on his true path and since Durandal was guiding him Durandal wasn't setting him straight then.

Obviously Fukuda is talking about Lacus, as Shinn is the one person in CE that never really seemed to care or know much about her. It's so anti Durandal and anti Shinn that one line might have been a mistranslation, since nobody has ever produced the original Japanese interview and Fukuda hasn't spoke since it's impossible to tell. Then, when the next generation of mobile suits came around, they didn't incorporate the modular design into any prototypes or mass production models.

The more I think about it, the more that the Impulse's combining system seemed like just a gimmick, since it was only ever really significant in one battle Impulse vs Freedom and the design was otherwise abandoned by ZAFT. Bar the aforementioned Impulse vs Freedom battle, the Impulse could have just been a single unit with a slightly more advanced system of changing packs and nothing would have changed. Considering how Crazy-Prepared Durandal was initially it might not be too out there for the Impulse's combining gimmick solely to have been created for the ulterior motive of being able to go against Freedom.

Durandal obviously knew about Kira, was expecting his interference at some point seemed to be raising Shinn specifically to be Zaft's counterpart version of Kira.

As special edition 2 showed he was long expecting Shinn and Kira to face off so it wouldn't be that farfetched for Durandal to make sure his sides main Ace's machine had a design feature to counter the specific combat style of the enemy's. Note that immediately after Kira is supposedly killed Durandal gives Shinn a new machine more suited to enforcing and overpowering regular machines.

Also, on that subject, why weren't Rey and Luna given Impulses? The Minerva had a catapult specifically for launching the Impulse, and as the battle against the Freedom proved they had a large supply of Leg and Chest Flyers and assorted packs, so why didn't they jsut stock up on extra Core Splendors and give them to Rey and Luna instead of their crappy non-flying ZAK Us? Because the plot demands it. Core Block Systems, as they're called in UC, have been described as horrifically expensive and wasteful glorified ejection systems.

The Impulse was probably never designed for mass-production, just an experimental unit due to the success of the Striker Pack during the last war. The EA adopted it wholesale, with most of the Dagger line and the Windam using it as well. The stock footage launching is just plain stupid, however. Ever wondered what the "X" in their designations means? I used to think that this was weird too, until I thought about it in context, then it became Fridge Brilliance.

The Impulse was originally designed the way it was because of the provisions in the Treaty of Junius 7, which was drawn up at the end of the first Bloody Valentine war. The Impulse was designed to work around those limitations by creating mobile suits that could serve in several rolls and change between them mid-battle by equipping different silhouettes supporting material also shows that the Chaos, Gaia and Abyss were also intended to be developed into additional silhouettes for the Impulse as well.

This lets ZAFT get around the armament limitations in the treaty by having the Impulse, which can serve as several different kinds of mobile suits throughout a battle, but still claim that it's just one mobile suit, which allows them to get the most bang for their buck or it would if development had continued and the system perfected for mass production.

However, since the purpose of a treaty is to prevent a war in the first place, once one starts, the provisions of the treaty go out the window, as the Earth Forces handily demonstrated when they tried to nuke the PLANTS in the first battle of the new war. This meant that there was no need to continue the development of the Impulse, which was simply a workaround for the treaty in the first place, so it was sidelined and ZAFT went back to developing and building more typical mobile suits, now that their numbers were no longer limited by the treaty.

Talk:Athrun Zala

This is an issue that has bugged me for the entire series. Forget all the other issues. For me, this one is the biggest Headscratchers of all. So here it is: Why did Shinn focus all his hate on Orb? And Cagali's family specifically? Let's not think about how some people wanted Orb to be sacks or any of that. The fact is that The Earth Alliance is far more responsible, or at least equally responsible for the death of his family, being the ones that invaded and all.

Really, I get that he feels they didn't do enough to protect the city, but should't he have some grudge towards the EA as well? We all know Shinn does not hesitate to tear into someone he hates the numerous times he ripped on Cagalliso why just Orb? Without his irrational hatred of Orb and the Athas specifically, and Kira on the side to provide conflict, Shinn has literally nothing in terms of characterization except lots of and lots of rage. Really, in terms of responsibility for the death of Shinn's family, it goes 1 OMNI, for invading, 2 his sister, for worrying about her goddamn cell phone while they're fleeing through the middle of a battlefield, 3 ZAFT, for not helping Orb defend itself against OMNI Orb has a significant Coordinator population — would it be too much to expect a little solidarity?

Really, the biggest annoyance about the whole thing is that Shinn never has anything to say about what Orb should have done instead. It's a little more complex than that. If you take into account some of his lines earlier in the series, it makes more sense. He calls the Athha's hypocrites, and later yells about how he and his family believed in Orb and its ideals, and what they got for it was being killed.

Both those incidents broke Orb's third ideal "We will not intervene in the conflicts of other nations" in order to feel better about their second ideal "We will not allow another nation to attack us", as well as breaking their policy of neutrality. Essentially, he feels betrayed because he and his family believed in the ideals of Orb, yet Orb couldn't follow its own ideals.

Interviews with Morosawa and Fukuda concerning AsuCaga

That's why he says that he'll never believe their Athha and Orb's lies again, because they promised to stay out of the conflict, they didn't, and his family wound up paying the price. Except that neutral nations are allowed and expected to deal with both sides of the conflict they're neutral in. That's what neutrality means. Neither is allowing the Archangel into Orb territory. Shinn's rage is horribly misplaced. That is breaking neutrality. If we assume that the same rules regarding neutrality that exist today are the ones imposed in the Cosmic Era, giving the Archangel sanctuary is violating neutrality.

In the event that a belligerent nations troops reach neutral territory, the neutral nation is required to intern them, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It is one of their responsibilities as a neutral nation as defined by the Hague Convention of A neutral nation is not allowed to hide one sides troops and give them aid, nor are belligerent armies men and material allowed to be transported across neutral territory.

Granted, naval vessels of nations involved in the conflict can use neutral ports for 24 hours, however the Archangel was not even attempting to make port, and the neutral nation is not allowed to hide the fact that said warship is in port.

Now, as for how it's Orb's fault that they got attacked, it's very simple. Upon committing a non-neutral act, the neutral well, formerly neutral nation forfeits all protections afforded to them as a neutral nation. Essentially, by committing a non-neutral act, Uzumi put a giant target on his nation.

Then there's his actions afterwards, where he refuses to let the EA use Orb's Mass Driver which was all they originally wanted before his constant refusals irritated them and they handed down the list of unreasonable demandsand he turns down an offer of alliance from ZAFT, either of which could have saved his country had he not suddenly decided to be neutral again.

Apparently for Uzumi, breaking neutrality to save his daughter was okay, but breaking neutrality to save his nation from the situation his original breach of neutrality caused wasn't okay. Shinn's rage isn't misplaced, Orb well, technically Uzumi broke their neutrality, created a horrible situation, and then suddenly decided to cling to his ideals when the situation went to hell in the aftermath of his original screwup.

Combine that with Orb's actions in Destiny and small wonder he hates them. I think you're confusing different kinds of neutrality. A nation neutral in a conflict between two other nations is a Truce Zone ; everyone's allowed in as long as they play nice while they're there. What you're describing is The Neutral Zone or a demilitarized zone: Shinn's anger at Orb is a sign of his immaturity — he ignores the reality of the difficult situation they were in and hates them for failing to be perfect, because that's easier than admitting that the world is a harsh place and bad things happen to good people sometimes.

There is no differentiation between different types of Neutrality in International Law. If we assume that the same rules apply in the Cosmic Era that apply now, Uzumi broke: Chapter 1 Article 2: So, Uzumi broke two of his responsibilities as a neutral nation. He later tries to stick to the neutrality that he had already broken, passing up two good opportunities to possibly save his country, one by just letting the EA use the mass driver instead of constantly refusing and pissing them off, the other turning down ZAF Ts offer of alliance.

Shinn being angry because Uzumi was a piss-poor leader isn't being immature, it's putting the blame right where it belongs, on the back of said piss-poor leader. You're trying to apply technical definitions from real-life treaties to a fictional universe that takes place an unknown-but-large amount of time in the future.

I hope I don't have to explain why that's silly. Within the context of the story, Orb remained genuinely neutral. The fact that they might not have fulfilled the real-world legal requirements for it is irrelevant — I doubt that the writers knew the legalities of it when they wrote the plot, and it's clear that it's supposed to be the mean, nasty OMNI wrongfully persecuting the righteous and principled Orb.

Besides, Shinn never actually takes the stance you're attributing to him that I recall — he just sort of yells at Orb, blaming them for his family's death without ever explaining why he thinks it's their fault. I see that as being indicitive of the fact that he doesn't really have a reason — he just blames Orb because it's most convenient for him. Do we ever see any other treaty ever being invoked? It's clear that there are laws regulating neutrality in the Cosmic Era, and unless you can come up with some other treaty that the Cosmic Era abides by, we're forced to assume that the same laws that govern neutrality today are the ones in place in the Cosmic Era-sort of like how we accept the fact that there are laws regarding murder, theft and a whole host of other things that are never explicitly shown in the animation.

Unless you'd like the claim that because they're not shown they obviously don't exist or have been changed in the "unknown but large amount of time in the future". Within the context of the story, Orb still gives aid to one side while refusing to allow the other side to even dock, all while lying to said other side about the fact that they're harboring and giving aid to aforementioned one side.

Orb is not being neutral no matter how finely you want to split the hairs. That pretty much spells out that he feels that the Athha's didn't follow their own ideals, and that his family got killed because of that breach of neutrality.

No, that spells out that Shinn thinks that. Given that it's Shinn, who's probably the single least objective person in the CE universe on that particular subject, I feel no need to take his word for it. Laws about theft and murder are simple and widely understood; laws about conduct of warfare are neither. The whole point of Orb is that they stuck by their principles; the writers, at least, obviously believe that Orb didn't violate their own neutrality, otherwise nothing about Orb's characterization in the second half of Seed and the first half of Destiny makes sense.

Instead of trying to insist that Orb are actually the bad guys based on applying real-world laws to a fictional universe, thereby throwing out basically everything we're told about them, I find it much easier to accept things at face value as presented in the series: Orb was neutral, and OMNI invaded them anyway.

Orb did not stick by their principles, unless you consider giving aid to one side of the war as following "we will not intervene in the conflicts of other nations". You don't even have to apply real-world laws, although I did do so, giving aid to one side while telling the other side to piss off is not neutral no matter how you want to slice it. You are ignoring what actually happened onscreen, i. Orb breaking neutrality by giving aid to one side and not the other, then lying to said other side about giving the first side aid, so you can argue a subjective viewpoint that "they didn't betray their neutrality because otherwise their characterization doesn't make sense".

I'm not saying that Orb was necessarily bad, however they were not innocent little victims, and they definitely had a hand in bringing their eventual fate upon themselves. What is at face value is what actually happened onscreen, which is Orb breaking neutrality. Instead of going on about what the writers feel or characterization or anything else, why don't you answer me a simple question. And no "it's in the future, we don't know" or "the writers obviously feel", explain, in an objective manner, how that is not violating neutrality, and if your explanation stands up to analysis, I will concede the argument about Orb's neutrality.

Orb itself may not have even been involved in the creation of the G-weapons. Instead the cooperation Mongenrote or something like that was what built them and the Archangel. Governments are not immediately responsible for the actions of companies in them unless they are state-owned.

And let's face it, Orb is a tiny island nation that got crushed like a bug even with the Freedom, the Justice, and the Archangel helping out. I'd wager that if the Orb government did know about the G-series then it was because the EA told them "Help us or build these weapons or we'll come in there and make you build them". Uzumi was probably just trying to keep as many of his people alive as possible. We saw that he was perfectly willing to sacrifice himself, but I doubt he'd willing take his country with him.

Athrun and Meyrin: Front Porch looking In

While you ARE technically correct there is one problem with the arguement. Shinn himself does not know about any of that. The secret Gundam deals and sheltering AA was not publically known.

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So Shinn really is going essentially "I hate you cause you got invaded" with little justification as to why he can hate them beyond them not having the strength to resist a total invasion. For that matter, the Gundam deals and AA thing aren't mentioned by Azrael either.

They could possibly say "we're attacking you because you're picking and choosing your neutrality, and therefore your neutrality is BS" but they never do. Just "We need a Mass Driver. Give it to us and join the EA or else. You just made something from Destiny make sense. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done. If it's an issue of feeling betrayed, then I can get it. Even if the Earth Forces are responsible for the attack, there would have been no attack if Orb and the Athha's had not betrayed their ideals although neither Cagali nor her father knew about the Gundams until it was too late, but Shinn doesn't know that, and likely would not believe it anyway.

It even explains why he was so anxious to attack them during the search for Djbril. Once again Orb betrayed their so-called non-interference ideals, this time to protect a vile villain. As far as he's concerned, they deserve everything they get. Of course, in his Athha hate, he probably didn't consider how many new Shinn Asuka's he created in the process.

Plus, it really was his families own fault for still being so close to the battlefied, when they were supposed to have been evacuated beforehand. There are many factors that may come into play about orderly evacuation given time constraint and resources constraint.

For example, some people may have been given priorities elderly, the sick, small children, pregnant women, etc may be ordered to go to nearby shelters, while healthier people can travel further and thus ordered to evacuate by shipsdistance may decide priorities people with homes closer to estimated combat zones may need to evacuate first, people with homes far away from combat zones are told to stay in their house, etc.

Another possibility, Shinn's parents may work for the government, so they evacuate at the very last after helping all other citizens evacuate or maybe they just unlucky at the lottery so they were chosen to evacuate last. In short, it's most likely NOT their fault that they evacuate so late. To me, it's Orb's fault that Shinn and his family have to walk through combat zones just to get to their ships. Rewatching the compilation movies for Seed, it occurs to me that Orb was going to be attacked no matter what from the moment the Panama mass driver fell.

The earth Federation forces needed a mass driver in order to be able to send their forces into space.

Once Panama's was destroyed by Zaft, only the ones in Orb and Africa were left. Zaft controlled the Africa one. If Orb capitulated then Zaft would have had to attack them, and they would have lost their nutrality.

And it seems that once a nation is part of the Federation, they don't let them leave easy. Just look at what happened to the European Union in Destiny when the decided they didn't want to keep fighting Zaft. Deleting most if not all of the trivia wouldn't bother me. Axed the bit on love interests pointing pistols at each other - there's too many examples of major cast members pointing pistols at each other for this to mean anything. Also axed references to voice actors appearing together in other shows.

If it needs to be listed, it should be under the appropriate VA's, not here. Axed the reference to the Libyan city, Al Athrun; there's no evidence that the city, if it exists, has anything to do with the character's name. The trivia related to the Infinite Justice mobile suit belongs on that page, not this.

Most of the rest should probably be melded into the rest of the atricle or axed. He's the only illustrator credited in the novel; there is no mention of Hirai Hisashi. Basically, the character art at the start of the book is from model sheets Hirai did. The actual full page art seen in the rest of the book is by Tomofumi -- HellCat86 So I guessed Hirai-san did not get credited then.

I see no reason why people keep editing her out as that. If you have solid evidence that she is not a possible love interest, please show it. Otherwise I think it should stay as it is. Still, other people even had more chance. As far as I know, it's only one-sided from Meyrin. Some people think it should be Athrun and Cagalli others think it should be Athrun and Meyrin.

We don't know who Athrun will end up with,maybe the recently annonced movie will tell us. Which relationship is more reasonable?

Athrun and Cagalli or Athrun and Meyrin? Most likely you don't know what Athrun thinks. We aren't debating that. Again, this isn't about what you personally feel, but what is shown in the anime. That is Athrun and Cagalli parting ways, and Athrun and Meyrin walking away together at the end of the last canon piece of anime in the timeline. That makes her a possible love interest.

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As for more reasonable at this point, that would be Athrun and Meyrin since it's the last thing shown to us. We don't need to rush. We have the same dream". Though Cagalli was not with Athrun towards the end, it did not mean it was their breakup or your saying "parting ways". Now, let's look at Final Plus again. Hiatus and possible one-sided.

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The other notes on her side are not needed. It's obvious what one sided means. That is, Morosawa had confirmed Athrun and Cagalli two-sided feelings. As we saw in anime, Cagalli was the only one Athrun loved. Remember, this is Wikipedia the so-called free Internet Encyclopedia and not regular forums which should base our discussion on facts and not personal beliefs, insights, interpretation, or speculation.

Though it still gets edited out and the same with the Cagalli portion as well. It's fine as it is, possible on her side is fine as well.

Not to you, but there is also no reason to be nit picky about details either walking behind versus accompanying unless you are going to go back and mention the placement of every pair in relation to how they walked. We have to keep this as neutral as possible,so there should be no one the sides of asucaga or asumey Let me reinstate again.

This is Wikipedia the so-called free Internet Encyclopedia and not regular forums which should base our discussion on facts and not personal beliefs, insights, interpretation, or speculation.